|
Post by taba on Jan 16, 2021 18:41:32 GMT
Hey Midnight, I didn’t know you were a veteran - what did you do? I was Army Aviation (WVARNG) for 9 years. I liked the US so much I even enlisted while still an Irish citizen...
|
|
|
Post by Midnight Rider on Jan 16, 2021 18:50:11 GMT
Internationally the US is seen as a very lawsuit heavy country (right or wrong). We often hear about frivolous lawsuits because they make amusing news stories: www.thebalancesmb.com/most-ridiculous-lawsuits-of-all-time-4110919It is worth noting that almost all of these types of cases are thrown out but often due to the high cost of defending against such things it can still hurt the innocent. The latest I heard was a guy who sued Twitch for having sexy girl gamers which caused his sex addiction to result in him injuring himself: www.mirror.co.uk/tech/man-sues-twitch-showing-many-22269094.ampAgain it was thrown out but at a waste of court time and Twitch needed to have their legal team invest time and money to counter. You hear of ambulance chasers and small businesses put out of business, but I'm guessing these activities are actually very rare? How much of a threat are lawsuits really? We have personal injury/accident lawyers doing tv ads all the time. It's not like everyone is walking around in fear of being sued, however.
|
|
|
Post by Midnight Rider on Jan 16, 2021 19:06:08 GMT
Hey Midnight, I didn’t know you were a veteran - what did you do? I was Army Aviation (WVARNG) for 9 years. I liked the US so much I even enlisted while still an Irish citizen... Air Force, ground radio navigation aka NAVAIDS. TACAN, ILS, TVOR, VORTAC ... that kinda stuff. Orange directional antenna arrays at the end of runways, that stuff. If you did avionics or sat in a cockpit I imagine some of those acronyms are familiar. I talked to a Cessna pilot a couple years ago who said he flies IFR with an iPad. I guess GPS has replaced most navigation instruments. Another pilot I met said that the good old Aerial Surveillance Radar will disappear in a few years as airliners will just log into a satellite system and air traffic controllers will use that information to track aircraft.
|
|
|
Post by taba on Jan 16, 2021 22:26:24 GMT
I was a helicopter mechanic and later crew-chief but I am familiar with those terms through also being a private pilot. I haven’t flown an airplane for a few years (marriage, shifting priorities etc) and the technology has changed quite a bit since then.
|
|
|
Post by disillusioned on Jan 17, 2021 0:12:09 GMT
I would say the US has the greatest spirit of innovation in the world. And whatever else it is that continues to draw people from all over the world in a way that no other country does. No offense to disillusioned but it would have been easier for me to immigrate to Canada than it was for me to get into the US but I held out for the possibility of coming to the States. It’s hard to explain why, but I’m not alone. A country like Canada has a lot of appeal and clearly has a greater sense of social cohesion and consensus than the US does, as well as the social safety net that has a lot to recommend it. Failure is no fun, but I think that there is something to the idea that part of the appeal of the USA is that it allows greater potential to fail as well as greater potential to succeed. In some ways, those are hard to separate. And yes that definitely has its down-side and its risks. There are still elements of the Wild West in this country, for better and for worse. Craziness and Excitement are two sides of the same coin. Canada seems to me like a decaffeinated version of the US. For many people, that is preferable. But I do think the fact that the US produces more innovation in so many areas - musical, scientific, medical - has something to do with this in a way I can’t fully articulate. And just as a side note, logicalfallacy: over and over again I’ve noticed here and elsewhere that you seem to take special pleasure in criticizing the US. Nothing wrong with criticism, but it’s the pleasure you seem to take in it that bothers me somewhat. But to each his own. Absolutely no offense taken. I'm not at all an advocate of the idea that Canada is particularly better than any other country in general. Better at hockey and curling than most, sure. But that may be the extent of it. And your experience is certainly valid. However, I can tell you from *my* experience that my brother had a much easier time moving to America than his wife had when she tried moving to Canada. And I can also tell you that if you told me that I had to relocate, and asked me to make a list of countries to which I would like to move, the US wouldn't make the top 10. I suppose there's no accounting for preference. One thing I will say is that you mention that you perceive that the US has the greatest spirit of innovation in the world. Well, I can't comment on spirit. But practically speaking, it is extremely arguable that the US is the most innovative country in the world. www.businessinsider.com/these-are-the-10-most-innovative-countries-bloomberg-says-2020-1en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Innovation_Indexwww.visualcapitalist.com/world-most-innovative-economies/knowledge.insead.edu/entrepreneurship/the-worlds-most-innovative-countries-2020-15076The US isn't #1 on any of these lists. Is the US innovative? Sure. But the best? It's at least very arguable, and I personally think the answer is a hard "no".
|
|
|
Post by yeshuapantera on Jan 17, 2021 4:56:36 GMT
One thing that is interesting is how people in other countries view the US through television and media sources, without first hand experience. I can imagine what it must look like going on TV alone. Constant drama. Disasters everywhere. Drought to flooding on the flip of a dime. Lawsuits everywhere, as mentioned. Hurricanes. Beefing up the dramatic reporting.
The fear-mongering reigns supreme on media outlets and even the weather channel. The headlines are always exaggerated and sensational.
The media seems more concerned with keeping US citizens walking on constant eggshells and afraid, than what sort of image they are sending out to the rest of the world ABOUT the US. Ratings are the driver of it. Sensationalism = ratings. Meanwhile, a more or less overdramatized and false image goes out to the world watching these things.
The media is probably mostly to blame...
|
|
|
Post by logicalfallacy on Jan 17, 2021 10:39:55 GMT
And just as a side note, logicalfallacy : over and over again I’ve noticed here and elsewhere that you seem to take special pleasure in criticizing the US. Nothing wrong with criticism, but it’s the pleasure you seem to take in it that bothers me somewhat. But to each his own. Pleasure? No.This is hard to explain, but I guess I'm vary wary of the US and the position it sets for itself on the world stage. It kind of acts like it's got messiah complex and I've had a bad run in with that type of complex. So I guess I can come across as a strong criticism. However, for clarification I'm not anti American. I'm not sure what it's like for you in the US, but from outside it the US looks different. It's constantly telling everyone how great it is, how it is the leader of the free world etc etc etc. Who elected the US as leader? No one. It appointed itself as world freedom police... which is oxymoronic. It's like freedom for all, but only our way. I point out things I observe as an outsider that perhaps people on the inside are perhaps unaware of or blind to. Here is another observation of mine, and it's the same one I remarked to Dave after he made a similar reply to me as your's above. When people criticize or make observations about the US some citizens seem to get upset. This is odd. If the observations and criticisms are factually incorrect or unfounded citizens can either shrug it off as ignorant or point out why it's wrong. But instead I receive comments like yours and Dave's. Not that I'm bothered by them, again it's just odd. I like our current Prime Minister. She's smart, empathetic, and all round the complete opposite of Trump. Some people, a lot of people actually, say she's a communist. Do I get upset at this criticism? No, I simply ignore it for the ignorant babbling that it is, or if the person saying it is important enough I actually point out that she is a capitalist centrist and give reasons to support that position. So that was a rather long way around replying to your statement. Now, I note that no one actually bothered to address my main point which was great by what metric? The video clip I think at the time was accurate in the stats quoted. I have seen more recent stats on standards of living and depending on the measure the US doesn't make the top 10. Certain countries do make top 10 consistently, and some have been mentioned in this thread, and of course there are the Scandinavian countries. This thread is about perceptions of the US. Truth be told, I actually haven't criticized the US yet, I have merely noted some of my perceptions and observations. Don't tempt me brother I was going to raise a point about your claim of greatest in innovation - but it seems disillusioned has done that for me, and no need to repeat it. I guess my attitude to the US could be summed up as the US says I'm the greatest and I'm like... where, what, how? Citation please.
|
|
|
Post by taba on Jan 17, 2021 15:05:16 GMT
Well for some reason I'm having trouble with the Quote feature. logicalfallacy said " I guess I'm vary wary of the US and the position it sets for itself on the world stage. It kind of acts like it's got messiah complex and I've had a bad run in with that type of complex. So I guess I can come across as a strong criticism. However, for clarification I'm not anti American. I'm not sure what it's like for you in the US, but from outside it the US looks different. It's constantly telling everyone how great it is, how it is the leader of the free world etc etc etc. Who elected the US as leader? No one. It appointed itself as world freedom police... " Who elected the US as leader? As Harold Macmillan said, "Events, dear boy, events!" Specifically World War I and especially World War II, both of which the United States entered with great reluctance and from which it emerged as the greatest military and economic power in the world. For a few decades the USSR challenged the leading role of the US but dominance requires both military and economic might and the Soviet Union turned out to be built on voodoo economics, so we know how that ended. The USSR also lacked moral legitimacy: nobody risked their lives to go from western Europe to the Soviet bloc. For all America's faults, athletes, artists and scientists did not defect from the west to the east. Nature and geopolitics abhor a vacuum, and throughout world history leading powers emerge that dominate their eras. I suggest that the USA in its leadership role has been more benign than any dominant power in history. I'm not comparing it to New Zealand or Canada. Those countries, admirable as they are, can neither overthrow other countries' elected governments in coups, nor can they liberate Europe or defeat Imperial Japan. And they will not stand in the way of whatever ambitions are harbored by Xi Jinping's China. You will be disappointed to hear that the next dominant power will not be elected by universal suffrage either. Other powers will emerge into leadership whether we like it or not. Neither New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the UK nor Scandinavia are candidates. They simply lack the economic and military heft, for all their moral goodness. The European Union may be a role model for much of the world but it is unlikely to fill the role because it is unable or unwilling to assert itself economically or militarily. It isn't willing to pay for military power and economically it is unwilling or unable to resist even Putin's tinpot dictatorship by refusing to be dependent on Russian natural gas. So by all means feel free to resent the United States and its role in the world, but be careful what you wish for. Australia has already started to incur China's wrath by daring to stand up to China. They won't be the only ones. www.economist.com/asia/2020/05/21/china-punishes-australia-for-promoting-an-inquiry-into-covid-19
|
|
Wertbag
New Member
Posts: 14
Current Belief System: Atheist
Gender: Male
|
Post by Wertbag on Jan 17, 2021 18:47:27 GMT
Speaking of media sensationalism, how much of the stories about California becoming a disaster area are true? Famously both Joe Rogan and Ben Sharpio moved their multi-million dollar businesses out of LA, and Elon Musk and Toyota have both relocated. I think just about all of them relocated to Texas, which seems to be the place of choice for business laws and taxes. There's talk about the homeless problem (something like 60,000 homeless in LA), the high taxes with some of the worse returns for the money collected, and infrastructure issues with upkeep and water supply. So some people are saying its bad, but how much is hyperbole and how much is genuine?
|
|
|
Post by taba on Jan 17, 2021 19:12:26 GMT
Disaster Area is a bit of an overstatement but California seems to like to regulate everything. When I visited a few years ago I was struck by the government- mandated warning notices seemingly everywhere. The state certainly does seem to have become less friendly to businesses and entrepreneurs. And one of the advantages of the federal system is that different states can have different approaches, and citizens and business can vote with their feet.
California has become a One Party State in recent years, with state-level offices pretty much entirely Democratic Party. Not because of any totalitarianism but because the California GOP has become uncompetitive at the state level, which is mostly their own fault. That is never a healthy thing in a democracy.
|
|
|
Post by yeshuapantera on Jan 17, 2021 20:42:49 GMT
Speaking of media sensationalism, how much of the stories about California becoming a disaster area are true? Famously both Joe Rogan and Ben Sharpio moved their multi-million dollar businesses out of LA, and Elon Musk and Toyota have both relocated. I think just about all of them relocated to Texas, which seems to be the place of choice for business laws and taxes. There's talk about the homeless problem (something like 60,000 homeless in LA), the high taxes with some of the worse returns for the money collected, and infrastructure issues with upkeep and water supply. So some people are saying its bad, but how much is hyperbole and how much is genuine? California is very crowded. The sources mentioned are making it sound like there's a massive exodus, which, some famous people have left and broadcast it. I think that some amount of christians have up and left too, opting for 'red states' out west or moving east. But I don't know the objective raw data on that. It's so crowded that the moving out hasn't probably put a dent in it to the naked eye. New York city has a similar issue. With the covid and lock downs, the streets there look to be very desolate considering. But i only see that from media footage. I can see that a lot of New Yorkers have come down to Florida, which is a thing anyways. But now it's become a lot more of a thing with the covid issue. So being in construction and renovations, I see where people leaving some of the liberal run northern states and counties (blue states and counties) to come here to our red governed state and counties (where there isn't nearly the restrictions), is now affecting the building and housing industry here. Or at least that's the word on street with contractors and realtors at the moment. Apartments are not available. There's waiting lines to try and get into places. And building is going strong.
|
|
|
Post by Midnight Rider on Jan 17, 2021 21:02:54 GMT
Speaking of media sensationalism, how much of the stories about California becoming a disaster area are true? Famously both Joe Rogan and Ben Sharpio moved their multi-million dollar businesses out of LA, and Elon Musk and Toyota have both relocated. I think just about all of them relocated to Texas, which seems to be the place of choice for business laws and taxes. There's talk about the homeless problem (something like 60,000 homeless in LA), the high taxes with some of the worse returns for the money collected, and infrastructure issues with upkeep and water supply. So some people are saying its bad, but how much is hyperbole and how much is genuine? Tesla built a gigafactory east of Reno, Nv, this state which has become an eastern suburb of California. Tax incentives have tech companies moving in. www.tesla.com/gigafactory
|
|
|
Post by disillusioned on Jan 17, 2021 23:28:26 GMT
Well for some reason I'm having trouble with the Quote feature. logicalfallacy said " I guess I'm vary wary of the US and the position it sets for itself on the world stage. It kind of acts like it's got messiah complex and I've had a bad run in with that type of complex. So I guess I can come across as a strong criticism. However, for clarification I'm not anti American. I'm not sure what it's like for you in the US, but from outside it the US looks different. It's constantly telling everyone how great it is, how it is the leader of the free world etc etc etc. Who elected the US as leader? No one. It appointed itself as world freedom police... " Who elected the US as leader? As Harold Macmillan said, "Events, dear boy, events!" Specifically World War I and especially World War II, both of which the United States entered with great reluctance and from which it emerged as the greatest military and economic power in the world. For a few decades the USSR challenged the leading role of the US but dominance requires both military and economic might and the Soviet Union turned out to be built on voodoo economics, so we know how that ended. The USSR also lacked moral legitimacy: nobody risked their lives to go from western Europe to the Soviet bloc. For all America's faults, athletes, artists and scientists did not defect from the west to the east. Nature and geopolitics abhor a vacuum, and throughout world history leading powers emerge that dominate their eras. I suggest that the USA in its leadership role has been more benign than any dominant power in history. I'm not comparing it to New Zealand or Canada. Those countries, admirable as they are, can neither overthrow other countries' elected governments in coups, nor can they liberate Europe or defeat Imperial Japan. And they will not stand in the way of whatever ambitions are harbored by Xi Jinping's China. You will be disappointed to hear that the next dominant power will not be elected by universal suffrage either. Other powers will emerge into leadership whether we like it or not. Neither New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the UK nor Scandinavia are candidates. They simply lack the economic and military heft, for all their moral goodness. The European Union may be a role model for much of the world but it is unlikely to fill the role because it is unable or unwilling to assert itself economically or militarily. It isn't willing to pay for military power and economically it is unwilling or unable to resist even Putin's tinpot dictatorship by refusing to be dependent on Russian natural gas. So by all means feel free to resent the United States and its role in the world, but be careful what you wish for. Australia has already started to incur China's wrath by daring to stand up to China. They won't be the only ones. www.economist.com/asia/2020/05/21/china-punishes-australia-for-promoting-an-inquiry-into-covid-19Yes, this a roughly fair account of how the US came to be the dominant military power in the world. One thing that I sometimes find interesting is that many Americans seem to think that being the dominant power in the world is their rightful place. Obviously this is false. There is no legitimacy to America's claim to world domination. They just rather opportunistically seized power. And yes, as the world moves on various other nations will undoubtedly seize power. This is the way of the world. I'm not sure that I buy your claim that the US has been more benign than any other historical power. To be honest, I'm not even sure what it is supposed to mean. For example, I've recently heard it said by several Republicans that one of the greatest things about Trump's legacy is that he's the first modern president to not take America into a new war. Well, I wouldn't call any nation which is in a constant state of war "benign". It is also the case that American consumerism is only possible because of various human rights atrocities in other countries. The US is certainly not alone in exploiting developing nations in this way, but still. Moreover, due in no small part to the role that America has played over the past century, we now live in a world where many nations possess nuclear weapons. The potential for the world to literally be destroyed at any moment by a madman has never been higher. "Benign" seems a bit much. I'm also not sure exactly what you mean by "be careful what you wish for". I'm sure you didn't intend it this way, but it sounds a little like a threat. At the very least, it seems that you think the US being in charge is good for the world. Well, maybe. Maybe not. I think, as their power started to wane, the Romans would have said something similar. As would the Greeks. As would the UK. And so on. Point being, I don't see any particular reason to think that a world where the US is the dominant military power would necessarily be better than a world dominated by any other country. Better for Canada? As long as you guys play nice (which, after the past four years I no longer take for granted, by the way), sure. But better in general? It really depends on who you ask.
|
|
Wertbag
New Member
Posts: 14
Current Belief System: Atheist
Gender: Male
|
Post by Wertbag on Jan 18, 2021 2:20:13 GMT
Speaking of media sensationalism, how much of the stories about California becoming a disaster area are true? Famously both Joe Rogan and Ben Sharpio moved their multi-million dollar businesses out of LA, and Elon Musk and Toyota have both relocated. I think just about all of them relocated to Texas, which seems to be the place of choice for business laws and taxes. There's talk about the homeless problem (something like 60,000 homeless in LA), the high taxes with some of the worse returns for the money collected, and infrastructure issues with upkeep and water supply. So some people are saying its bad, but how much is hyperbole and how much is genuine? Tesla built a gigafactory east of Reno, Nv, this state which has become an eastern suburb of California. Tax incentives have tech companies moving in. www.tesla.com/gigafactoryIt certainly sounds like Nevada has more incentives than California, better tax rates which would appeal to a big company like Tesla. In addition to the Gigafactory you mention, Muskrat has said he will move the Tesla head office from California to either Nevada or Texas. "According to the U.S. Census Bureau, in 2019, 653,000 people left California, while just 480,000 moved in for a net loss of 173,000 people. And that was before the coronavirus pandemic." 170k people leaving both sounds like a lot, but also as a percentage of state population its probably quite minor. Although articles say the negative trend has continued for 9 years (up to 2020, and is expected to continue into 2021), so if the trend is constant it could account for 1-2 million people.
|
|
|
Post by taba on Jan 18, 2021 15:58:27 GMT
Jan 17, 2021 18:28:26 GMT -5 disillusioned said:I'm not sure that I buy your claim that the US has been more benign than any other historical power. To be honest, I'm not even sure what it is supposed to mean. I did say any other "dominant" power": major world power. I'm not comparing it to Luxembourg or Canada. By "more benign" I mean better, less bad. Jan 17, 2021 18:28:26 GMT -5 disillusioned said:It is also the case that American consumerism is only possible because of various human rights atrocities in other countries. The US is certainly not alone in exploiting developing nations in this way, but still. Explain what you mean by "American consumerism". Is there a Canadian version? If so, do you participate in it? Jan 17, 2021 18:28:26 GMT -5 disillusioned said:Moreover, due in no small part to the role that America has played over the past century, we now live in a world where many nations possess nuclear weapons. The potential for the world to literally be destroyed at any moment by a madman has never been higher. "Benign" seems a bit much. You don't think nuclear weapons would have been developed if the US hadn't developed them first? Are you kidding me?
Jan 17, 2021 18:28:26 GMT -5 disillusioned said:I'm also not sure exactly what you mean by "be careful what you wish for". I'm sure you didn't intend it this way, but it sounds a little like a threat. My statement was : "So by all means feel free to resent the United States and its role in the world, but be careful what you wish for. Australia has already started to incur China's wrath by daring to stand up to China."
My point was: if you get your wish of a less dominant USA, that is likely to mean a more dominant China, governed by the Chinese Communist Party. As you said yourself, "as the world moves on various other nations will undoubtedly seize power". Would you prefer a world with China dominant than tone with the US dominant?
Jan 17, 2021 18:28:26 GMT -5 disillusioned said:Point being, I don't see any particular reason to think that a world where the US is the dominant military power would necessarily be better than a world dominated by any other country. "Any other country". Seriously, you think a world where the current Chinese government was the dominant military power would be OK?
|
|