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Post by Midnight Rider on Feb 23, 2019 16:27:23 GMT
If he was real he would have appeared by now and not just as a vague thought in one's imagination.
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Post by yeshuapantera on Feb 24, 2019 15:44:42 GMT
For all intensive purposes, you're right. He could be real and simply hasn't appeared yet, but that's far less likely to the be case given the wealth of surrounding information involved in this situation.
Such as the early christians thinking the end of the world was right around the corner. And then when the world didn't end, projecting the end times out just ahead of themselves. Then that forward projection going on for centuries. When the claim never had any merit to begin with. It was imaginary all along.
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Post by Midnight Rider on Feb 24, 2019 16:31:24 GMT
God is very chatty in the OT, is knocking over tables and appearing to 500 people in the NT , but strangely absent to our senses in 2019.
It's interesting that believers just ignore scripture and keep pushing the end of the world a little bit further. lol. I did the same thing. Well, faith is not about logic. It's about maintaining the fantasy.
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Post by yeshuapantera on Feb 26, 2019 11:33:45 GMT
I think the technological age is going to push that further and further into a "fantasy Island," though. Kids just aren't that naive anymore. They grow up with technology at their finger tips and they can search out any claim. I think that in the next few generations the religious beliefs that are founded on claims of "absolute truth" will suffer steady and increasing losses. The more vague spiritual thinking which is agnostic based may sweep a lot of it up. And non-belief the rest.
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Post by Midnight Rider on Feb 26, 2019 22:57:15 GMT
I think the technological age is going to push that further and further into a "fantasy Island," though. Kids just aren't that naive anymore. They grow up with technology at their finger tips and they can search out any claim. I think that in the next few generations the religious beliefs that are founded on claims of "absolute truth" will suffer steady and increasing losses. The more vague spiritual thinking which is agnostic based may sweep a lot of it up. And non-belief the rest. Yes, I agree. Back in the day, kids could be sheltered and lied to much easier. Now, a child has all information available 24/7. I see a lot of posts by kids or young adults on different web forums speaking against their parents' nutty religious upbringing.
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Post by weezer on Jan 20, 2021 3:39:41 GMT
Then, there is the possibiliy that a man named Jesus existed, (several actually) but was not what the bible claims.
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Post by yeshuapantera on Jan 21, 2021 14:31:33 GMT
Then, there is the possibiliy that a man named Jesus existed, (several actually) but was not what the bible claims. There something like 20 jesus's mentioned in the writings of Josephus. The name is yeshua, meaning, "Yahweh Saves." So it was quite popular among 1st century jews it would seem. When you go through the Talmud and Josephus, for instance, you find people with the name yeshua who fit one or few parts of the gospel story, not the entirety. And that has caused some to speculate about people reading through those historical works and crafting together the gospel narrative picking and choosing bits and pieces from various biographies. The gospels didn't appear into the historical records my mention until the 2nd century. And following behind Marcion's gospel. He "found" Paul's writings in antioch as the story goes. And then added his own gospel, which, looks strangely like Luke, minus a lot of the further detail in Luke. Leading some to speculate that the gospel of Luke is a rewrite of Marcion's gospel and not the other way around. The biggest problem facing the idea of a jesus at the bottom of it all, is that there's no core to the onion. Once you strip off these layers you realize that the layers are all that exist, basically. We're still left with an imaginary jesus at the end of the day. Because there's zero to go on. You literally have to imagine an imaginary jesus who existed, but is not what the bible claims, and left zero evidence to by as to who or what he might have been. Everything zeros out like that. Now the Buddha is likely not real either. And neither of them may have been meant to be real at first. They both represent wisdom teachings and reflect entire philosophical schools of thought. And the conflicts and contradictions found in the religious writings, for instance, represent where competing schools of thought conflicted with one another. A hero myth, like both of these examples, serves as a character which is being used in a literary system to express the beliefs of peoples. As if the character is the one who thinks, does, and says all of the things attributed. So there's no problem with taking the golden rule or non attachment and promoting them as valid, the problem comes from insisting on things which can not be proven about the presentation of this philosophical and religious teachings.
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Post by weezer on Jan 23, 2021 20:06:51 GMT
How do the Gnostic Gospels that seem to treat him more of as a human being figure into the study?
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Wertbag
New Member
Posts: 14
Current Belief System: Atheist
Gender: Male
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Post by Wertbag on Feb 4, 2021 22:07:35 GMT
I heard one argument in favour of a human Jesus existing, and that was the growth of cults. Cults usually have a single Charismatic leader who demands worship of themselves, then as it grows the stories told about them are embellished until supernatural claims are accepted as believable. Jesus creating a cult and growing that into a full religion is plausible, while a cult trying to grow claiming worship of a non-entity is harder to believe. Basically its easy for Jesus to say "worship me, I'm the son of god" as opposed to a later leader saying "worship me, cos I know a guy who claimed to be the son of god". A first person claim is strong, a second or third person is pretty weak.
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